Episode 240: How naltrexone and the Sinclair Method helped me stop binge drinking with Thrive Recovery’s Katie Lain

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If you’ve ever wondered whether medication can help you drink less, or maybe you’ve tried naltrexone and felt disappointed, then this episode is for you. I’m talking to Katie Lane, who’s the founder of Thrive Alcohol Recovery  and a fierce advocate for the Sinclair method, which is a science-backed approach that uses naltrexone to reduce alcohol cravings over time.  Katie shares her personal story of going from a daily binge drinker

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to finding freedom without needing to get sober. She’s also going to explain what most people get wrong about relying on medication alone to change their relationship with alcohol.  So if you’ve been stuck in the gray area drinking more than you want to, but you don’t see yourself as an alcoholic, then you’re gonna love this conversation. You’ll walk away with a big picture understanding  of what it takes to rewire the brain for lasting change.

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and how to move through that messy middle without getting stuck in shame and guilt and black and white thinking when you make a mistake.

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My name is Colleen and I’m a mindful drinking coach helping high achieving professional women permanently reduce their alcohol consumption by 80%. Join me each week for evidence based holistic strategies  to regulate your nervous system,  balance your dopamine  and activate the growth mindset that makes you so powerful in other areas of your life  so you can stop worrying about losing control  and trust yourself again.  Get happy, not sober, it’s not about the alcohol.

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Hey, my friends, welcome back to the show. And before we dive into the interview with Katie, I just wanna tell you this is probably gonna be a shareable episode. There are so many people who want more information on both the naltrexone medication  as well as the Sinclair method.  And Katie and I break it down, the pros and the cons, the goods and the bad,  what works and what doesn’t work. And so I encourage you to share this episode either on your socials, text it to a friend,

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post it in a group chat, just share it because more people need to know that there are more options than your standard approach of either struggling in silence and shame or surrendering to the idea that you can’t control yourself, you can’t change, and therefore your party has to end forever. This show is growing exponentially and we’re doing it organically. And it’s episodes like these that really move the needle.

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because it truly contains a lot of information  that people are interested in. So if you appreciate this content, please pay it forward. Thank you very much. So let’s dive into the interview. Katie, I’m so excited to have this conversation with you. I always see you on TikTok. We’re kind of fellow TikTok sisters doing the thing. Would you do the honors and introduce yourself to the audience? Tell us who you are, what you do, and a little bit about why you do it.

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Yes, I know I follow you on TikTok too and I reached out to you like a month ago. I’m like, we are like kind of speaking the same language. So I would love to get to know you more and you invited me on. So I’m very grateful to be here. Yeah, I struggled long story short with my drinking for 10 years, basically the entire decade of my 20s. I’m 38 now and was really in a place  of drinking every day, binge drinking every day, drinking on the weekends. And throughout that time, even though I was drinking a lot, I

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really didn’t like that. I wanted to get control. I wanted to moderate. I even tried quitting drinking, honestly, like probably dozens of times over the course of that decade. And  it just never stuck. Like I would always relapse and binge again. So my own personal struggle  just led me to  researching, you know, alternatives to like treatments we all know like AA and rehab and things like that. I’d gone to a couple AA meetings. It was not for me  and I didn’t love the label of alcoholic and

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but was still struggling. But in 2017, I stumbled on a treatment that’s been around for 30 years. I know you’re familiar with it, that uses a medicine to essentially help the brain unlearn excessive drinking patterns. It’s called the Sinclair method. Stumbled on it in 2017. It seemed too good to be true, but I was kind of hopeless. I was like, I’ve got to give this a try. And I started it in July of 2017 and it just changed my life. It changed my drinking and it changed my life.

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you know, as I drink less, it just impacted everything. And so as I started to see success with the treatment, I was like, I’ve got to tell people about this because there’s nobody out there talking about it. I was diving in trying to find  others who’d done it and I couldn’t find anything. So I started documenting my journey through the protocol and just giving updates on YouTube and videos and stuff. And then that kind of naturally progressed into me coaching other people through it,  group calls and things like that. And now I run.

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a program that supports people through the treatment protocol through an  online private platform. What I really am curious about is kind of  separating the drug that is naltrexone, which I think is what your protocol is based on, from what you’re talking about the treatment. I tried naltrexone for a hot minute. I didn’t get good results in it. Of course,  I was doing it in secret to be

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full disclosure, my husband was a doctor and I got him to prescribe it for me and I saw somebody’s TED talk on it  and they said you don’t have to stop drinking to do it.

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And so I tried it. My personal experience was it kind of just made me tired and depressed more.  And I’ve had another expert on here that said, it’s not for everybody. I also didn’t do anything to support it. I was still hiding in shame  and hoping  that just by swallowing a pill, all of my problems would go away. I would swallow anything. And so I didn’t give it a fair shot, to be honest. But can you distinguish between the drug and how the drug is not the whole Sinclair method?

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Yeah, that’s such an important distinction because I encounter people like you probably almost every day. They’re like, I tried it, I felt like crap or it didn’t work. Like,  what’s the big deal about it? I learned about it through that same TEDx talk you’re talking about. And so yeah, there is a significant difference in just like getting naltrexone and taking it versus what we now use alongside the Sinclair method, which is a real comprehensive treatment that combines like the biopsychosocial support that should go along with alcohol recovery.

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for optimal success. Naltrexone, long story short, it’s a medication that’s been approved by the FDA for alcohol addiction treatment since 1994. And it’s used in different ways for treating alcohol addiction. Some people take it daily and helps them stay sober because it can serve as an anti-craving medication. I hear mixed results from people on that, but I do hear from people who that works well for, it keeps them sober. And then the Sinclair Method protocol is different because

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And by the way, it’s called the Sinclair method named after the  research who discovered it in the  90s, Dr. David Sinclair. That protocol is unique with Naltrexone because it involves taking Naltrexone before drinking, typically like an hour before at least. And when the medicine is taken before drinking, what his research showed and what’s shown in practice over the last three decades is that when Naltrexone is paired with the alcohol, the Naltrexone is an opiate antagonist or blocker. And so it’s

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blocking the rewarding or endorphin effects related to alcohol. When we drink, it just floods our brain with a bunch of feel-good hormones, and that’s why it’s addictive. It just feels really good on a very practical level. And so when we take naltrexone beforehand and it blunts or mutes that reward, what happens is over time, the brain can gradually unlearn alcohol use disorder because the brain isn’t getting the same reward from the behavior. And so when someone drinks repeatedly with the medicine, it typically takes like

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six to 12 months to see full results,  meaning getting to a place where they just feel like they have total control over drinking again, whether they’re drinking in moderation or going alcohol free. Over that time, the brain is gradually unlearning alcohol as this primary reward. And then like what we do in our program is  help people meet the medicine halfway with gradual habit change, creating new rituals, questioning  beliefs about alcohol, practicing different coping skills and things like that. Because if someone just

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and I’ve seen this so many times over the years, they just pop the pill and I honestly thought this, I was like, cool, this medicine’s like gonna be the thing to fix my drinking. And they popped the pill and kicked back for it, you waiting for it to do all the work. And they’re surprised when they hit like a plateau and they tell me, I don’t feel like drinking because an alterczone is working, but I’m drinking anyway. Like, why is that happening? And that’s like the importance of meeting it halfway and recognizing the medication is a powerful tool, but it’s just a tool that goes alongside, you know, changing your relationship with alcohol.

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And I know you talk a lot about that. Yeah. So what I’m hearing is that  people,  if they are self-reporting that they’re taking the pill and it maybe worked for a little while, but they hit a plateau and now they’re just kind of drinking through it. That was my favorite line, by the way. I’m like, I’m just going to drink through this. It’s fine.

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So they’re kind of drinking through it. So that is then where the medicine’s done all it can. And that’s a sign that it’s not necessarily that the medicine isn’t right for them, although maybe it is. But it’s  a sign that the work they need to do  is  deeper. Yeah. And it’s not that the medicine like, okay, three months in, you hit a plateau, like the medicine isn’t going to do anything for you anymore. In fact,

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in my experience, the longer someone’s on it, the better it works. But if they are not engaged in, like I said, like meeting it halfway where they, first of all, they have a desire to change their drinking. Like I’m sure you’ve worked with people where on one hand they want to change their drinking, but on the other hand, they love that bottle of wine every night. And so it’s like, okay, well, what’s this belief that’s driving the behavior, the habitual drinking? Because if you, if you’re on naltrexone and you still have a burning desire to drink a bottle of wine every night, like it’s pretty easy to

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out drink the medicine. So we help people  work with the  mindset,  getting them in a place where they feel ready to make change. And it’s done so very gradually, but it does require, you know, tracking your drinks and mindful drinking and  viewing this process as a treatment. Like you’re not just drinking as usual, you’re drinking in order to retrain your brain and ultimately become more of a  normal drinker, so to speak. the medication does continue to work, but oftentimes people will hit a plateau, like because the

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I kind of believe there’s like two extinctions going on. Like you’re extinguishing the neurobiology aspect of the addiction, which is the medication helps with,  but then there’s the habitual behavior side as well. And that sometimes takes longer to, to catch up. Okay. So it sounds like the medication supports, but it doesn’t cure like you’re your own cure. And I love what you said about  the time length of six to 12 months, which I’ve never heard associated with naltrexone before.

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But  I know in the work that I do,  I don’t offer any medication, but we’re going to get emotionally sober addressing the beliefs and the habits and all of that. And it takes six to 12 months to even kind of rewire your brain. Like  the myelination of the neural synapses, like the cement that paves the circuit through your brain doesn’t even start to become a biological reality that might.

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that might support a new habit for six to 12 months. So I’ve never heard that before. That’s interesting. Yeah, it’s and I get messages all the time from people who they go to their doctor, they ask for an Ultrexone and they’re like, I’ve been on it for two weeks and nothing’s changing or two months and nothing’s changing. Yeah. I took it for like three days and it didn’t work. I mean, can we be honest? It didn’t work. It’s like three whole days in a row. So yeah, there’s you.

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It really needs time because like especially I work with people they’ve been drinking every day for 10, 20, 30 years. Like that’s an extremely ingrained habit. There’s a set of beliefs and behaviors and you know mindset and just identity. How we view ourselves and our  relationship with alcohol. There’s so much that needs to be unpacked and changed and  I personally loved that this treatment was gradual. Like I know when we seek out support for alcohol problems we like want the problem gone yesterday but  I find that like when we

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make and if you read any habit change book it says the same thing like if you’re making gradual sustainable changes that’s what’s going to promote long-term success just like we know like a crash diet often you might lose the weight quickly but you’re going to gain it right back i feel that’s true for alcohol as well it’s like often such a you know we’re so attached to it in so many ways in our life and so it’s this gradual decoupling of you know alcohol’s role in our life and us deciding like what role do we want it to play i mean i love your work because you kind of

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put the power back in the hands of the people. Like you’re not a victim, you’re not an alcoholic, you’re not stuck. You can get out of this. Like, you know, it’s gonna be a process, but you’re not permanently stuck there. And I love that. Yeah, I think that one of the biggest hurdles,  I just know from myself when I was drinking every day, it was such a core part of my identity. I didn’t understand what I know now, which is it is a mindset. Like it is how you’re seeing. And I know,

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the obstacles, like whether you hit the plateau or it doesn’t seem to work, the obstacle is believing that you can get through it, that that’s part of the process, that nothing has gone wrong. Can you speak to a little bit about how you and the Sinclair method itself  deal with those beliefs  and help people move through the messy nonlinear process of change? Yes, that’s a very good question. I call that like the messy middle of the Sinclair method where

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So typically when people start on Naltrexone following the Sinclair method, kind of the first month is just like, okay, just start the medicine. That’s a pretty significant change.  I mean, like you, you had some side effects. So like work with your doctor to make sure the dosing is right so you can acclimate to it and minimize or avoid side effects. Typically they go away. But the first month is like just getting used to taking the medication and making sure that you’re taking it correctly. Because without that,

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it’s just going to prolong the process. Consistency with adherence to the medication is crucial. So that’s kind of month one. And typically what happens during that time is  people start to get some space from the alcohol. That’s how they often describe it. That insane urge and craving has just quieted down a bit to where they can start to distance themselves a bit from the alcohol. And maybe they’ll have an urge to drink, but it’s not like, oh my gosh, I got to get home and open up that bottle of wine. It’s like...

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do I really want to drink or why do I want to drink right now? What’s the need underneath that urge to drink? And so really through this process, it is  definitely starting to uncover and question those beliefs that many people are carrying around, perhaps on an unconscious level even. Like I need a drink to relax. I have five kids and my life is busy and it’s the only like treat I have at the end of the day. And that may be like true right now and feel very real,  but let’s get underneath that and really understand like

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what the need is underneath your urge to  check out with a bottle of wine or whatever. So with Naltrexone, it starts to give that space and that’s where we gradually come in to become more aware of, first of all, those beliefs, start to be curious about them and question them and then incorporate in mindful drinking around that. If someone’s typically drinking a bottle of wine at night when they start, maybe they’re still drinking that when they start, but it’s like, okay, how can we start tracking that and  slowing you down a bit and...

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you know, incorporating in water beforehand or meal beforehand and just starting to add in habits that will be helpful on the path of becoming more of a moderate drinker and then changing the habits like drinking on an empty stomach  that is not helpful for being a normal moderate drinker. So it’s a gradual process of uncovering those beliefs that most times people don’t even know that they have, learning to drink more mindfully with awareness, learning to meet those needs they have around alcohol in new ways, cultivating different.

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coping skills, seeking out meaning in life. don’t know if you Colleen had like, for me, I was a daily drinker for 10 years. So alcohol was like my purpose. I’m not even joking. I didn’t have hobbies outside of drinking really. And when I was on this treatment, I was like, what do I even like to do? Like I’m a drinker. I don’t know what else I like to do. So I had to really learn hobbies and find other ways to spend my time. And to your point of what we were talking about, that’s why this takes time. We’re kind of.

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uncovering this version of ourselves that maybe has been buried in our alcohol use issues for years or decades. But in my experience, it’s a very gentle process and you’re kind of working with the medicine as it’s helping the brain unlearn the disorder, kind of get rid of the craving, give you more control. You have that space to do the other work to ultimately see success with the protocol. Okay. So when I see

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people comment on my posts, the Sinclair method worked for me, which in my brain, I associate Sinclair and naltrexone. And this is like the first time I’m kind of seeing that naltrexone is part of the Sinclair method. But  if somebody says the Sinclair method worked for me, what does that look like? What are they signing up for? Is it just the medication and then you can read some stuff? Is there coaching and community? mean, obviously you coach.

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Is this a lifelong thing? You mentioned tracking and is that something you’re tracking for the rest of your life? What is the  timeline that you’re moving through that you can expect if you do the work and you stay consistent, you do all the things, then this is what the result will be? Yeah, it’s a really good question. And to be honest,

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everyone’s different. So everyone responds differently. They come to the treatment with different drinking patterns. For example, there’s people that are drinking Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but they’re binging, but they’re alcohol free the rest of the week. And then there’s people like me who they’re just drinking every single day. And then of course, people in between that are on either end of it. So  typically, when someone’s saying that the Sinclair method works for them, what that means  is that they first of all, yes, they got on naltrexone and they were

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compliant or adherent with taking the medication correctly 100 % of the time. One of the doctors we work with says 99 % compliance with the medication will give you 0 % results. It really is that important because it’s about consistently reinforcing that alcohol is not that same level of reward. Intermittently give your brain that reward and you’re not taking it, then it just confuses the brain. It can enhance the craving again for alcohol and just set people back. So step one is

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they’re following the medication protocol consistently. And then typically what’s needed for most people, I will say like probably about 20 to 30 % of people start this treatment and they see success within like three months. Like they’ve already been doing the moderate drinking work. They’re already taking classes, reading books. They’ve made a lot of progress with their drinking, but it’s still out of control and naltrexone is like the missing piece that just does it for them. The majority of other people,

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that I work with, success with the protocol, as I mentioned, it takes time and it takes like what I say, which is meeting the medicine halfway. So not only are they  drinking on the medication when they are drinking, they’re also working toward planning regular alcohol-free days and ideally building up more and more of those over time. And they’re intentional with those days where they’re not just,  you know, forcing them and just saying, I’m just not gonna drink today. It’s like, how can I go out and do something?

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fun and rewarding and nourishing for my soul so that I can teach my brain that alcohol is not the only pleasure anymore. So they’re working on building up alcohol-free days. They’re working on drinking more mindfully. Many of us, when we’re stuck in the habit of drinking, we crack open that bottle of wine and turn on Netflix and just pour and drink until we pass out essentially. So  it’s bringing that  unconscious pattern or habit to the forefront and just becoming more aware of it.

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Why am I pouring that third  drink? Do I really want it or is this just the habit playing out? Another thing is they’re cultivating different coping skills. know, a lot of us lean on alcohol to cope. That was one of the harder things for me on the treatment where there would be days I didn’t really feel like drinking, but I had a crappy day and I was just habituated to leaning on wine for that. So was like, I don’t really want to drink, but here I am taking L-trexan and drinking because I don’t know what else to do. So it’s this process of learning other coping skills as well.

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and cultivating a life that has meaning apart from the alcohol. So it’s this process that evolves over time. The medication is helping to give the brain space, but people succeed with the treatment when they’re incorporating in these other components of it to really help rebuild a life apart from alcohol and become, I mean, you mentioned the identity piece, like become someone who truly is a normal drinker. I remember a question I often asked myself on the treatment is what would a normal drinker do right now?

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And that just simple question helped inform my decisions like day to day. Well, they probably wouldn’t drink on an empty stomach. They wouldn’t drink when they’re upset. They’d probably go for a walk. know, just things like that as we gradually change our thought habits and behavioral habits as well around drinking. And then with this treatment, just to kind of wrap it up with like, what does long-term success look like? So the individual decides what role they want alcohol to play in their life.

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Most people who go on the Sinclair Method have a goal to drink moderately or be a normal drinker and have the option to drink if they want to. And within about a year, most people get there. Some people quicker, some people it takes them two or three years, but they’re continuing to progress throughout that time. And then other people, like what happened to me is I went on the treatment to be a moderate drinker, but after a year on the protocol,  I ended up quitting drinking just because I was like, I don’t.

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care about alcohol anymore. It had no appeal anymore. And so I sort of quit drinking by accident. But if I wanted to drink again tomorrow, I would, would just take naltrexone beforehand. And that’s the key for the protocol. If someone continues to drink, they will continue to take naltrexone one hour before drinking. Because once the addiction is unlearned, it just prevents the brain from relearning it again. Okay. So it’s not something where you are advised.

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to go off the medication, like basically for the rest of your life, if you’re drinking, you’re using naltrexone to support the process. Typically, yes. And I’ve been in this space since 2017 and I’ve known probably less than five people personally who were able to return to moderate drinking without the medicine and did so successfully.  Typically, those people have done a lot of that inner work to heal.  have

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guardrails around their drinking, they’re not leaning on it to cope and things like that. Oftentimes what does happen is if someone stops the medicine, even if they feel like they’re completely healed and back in control, they can relearn the alcohol use disorder in a matter of a couple of months. So it is imperative. Like if I were to drink again, I would just as a protection take naltrexone because I don’t want to.

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play with fire again in that way. Is that something where almost like carrying an EpiPen, you know, as a non-drinker, you’re not planning to drink, but do you carry an EpiPen in your bag so that if you would change your mind that you could do so in a way that felt safe to you? Yeah. I mean, I keep Naltrexone on hand. I used to have a keychain pill holder and like a couple of years after the treatment, I kept that on my key ring, but  now I’m almost seven years without drinking and I just have no urge. So I don’t keep it.

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with me anymore, but that is what people do. They’ll have a couple of tablets on hand and they’ll plan to take the medicine if they have a desire to drink. right. Well, tell me a little bit more about your community.  Like how often do you meet? What is it like to be in your community for Sinclair Method? Yeah. So it’s an online community that is really specialized and centered around the specific Sinclair Method protocol. So people who are using Naltrexone specifically to drink

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less alcohol and  it really offers everything somebody would need for the Sinclair Method protocol no matter what stage they’re at. We have people who start the program who are brand new, they’ve never heard of the treatment before, and then we have people who’ve been on it for a year but they’ve been just taking the medication and not doing anything else and they need guidance and support. So the community is pretty active. All of our coaches have done the method themselves and are certified to coach others through it. We have therapists that come in and lead workshops on

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healing and trauma and mindset and habit change and things like that. Also have group coaching where people connect multiple times a week just with other members and coaches or the therapists online groups and then one-on-one coaching as well. And then in addition to all of like the coaching support,  there’s also video courses and articles and lessons that really walk people through. We kind of break the treatment down into three phases. So it walks people through like beginning it and then the middle phase, which is the

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behavioral habit change and then toward the end, like what does it mean to, I mean, the end goal of this treatment is called extinction of the addiction. What does that mean? What does that look like? Kind of defining alcohol’s role in your life. And is all of this what was created by Dr. Sinclair himself or have you evolved over time? It’s evolved. So Dr. Sinclair’s protocol was really about taking naltrexone on your drinking days to block the reward reinforcement from alcohol.

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and then being intentional with your alcohol-free days so you can teach your brain other rewards and coping skills. But he kind of stopped there. That was really his research. And then just in practice over the years, kind of organically coaching people and working with people, seeing what’s necessary to really succeed with the protocol. One of our medical advisers at

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thrive. His name is Dr. Volpecelli and he’s been researching naltrexone for 40 years. He actually worked with Dr. Sinclair. He’s not only an addiction specialist, but also a psychologist. And so he has really approached it with the psychosocial behavioral side of it. So like there’s a book about the Sinclair method that kind of dives into the science behind it, but there’s no information in there around like habit change, behavior change mindset, things like that.  it sounds like

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you’ve got a holistic approach that  is supported by the medication. Yeah, that’s  pretty much how it works. So where does your community  access naltrexone? Is that something you prescribe or your medical person prescribes? Yeah, so we actually have partnered with online doctors in all 50 states. When I started on the medication in 2017, I had a really hard time getting a prescription.

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I went to five different doctors in my area and they all said no, which was really shocking to me. But I’ve since learned that most general doctors just don’t know about it. And a lot of them aren’t willing to prescribe it, even though technically any doctor can. But that’s why we refer people out to online doctors that specialize in the treatment. So we have a whole network we work with. And then probably about half the people in our program, they learn about naltrexone one way or another, get it from their doctor, but then either their doctor refers them to us or they join just because they need more.

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specific guidance. But if someone’s listening and they’re struggling to get naltrexone or their doctor won’t prescribe it, there’s other options. Just reach out or yeah, let me know if we can help with that. Are there  other  Sinclair programs out there? I know with what I do, I kind of feel like I’m in a blue ocean all by myself. You know, I get  slammed on social media all the time. And you know that I see you over there and you’re one of the few people I see. Well, you’re the only other person I know, to be honest.

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that is not all sobriety and zero tolerance abstinence approach and all of that. Are there more of us is what I’m asking. I tell people I’m like, I feel like the Sinclair method is the redheaded stepchild of alcohol recovery. And maybe you feel that way about your work too, because I’ve seen some of the videos you’ve made where people are just like beating you down and telling you you’re going to murder somebody with this information or something. Are there more people out there? mean, Molly Watts, mentioned her, the alcohol mineralist.

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Yeah, she does like a lot of my... Yeah, there’s still give ups. She does a lot of work around it, but it’s so rare. And there are other programs that use Naltrexone, but oftentimes they’ll just provide Naltrexone and not much else, or they don’t really specialize in the Sinclair Method protocol. So as far as I know, there’s not other like Sinclair Method specific online programs. There’s free communities on Reddit and stuff like that. But  yeah, it really is like this...

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dogmatic view in the space, think still even people who’ve branched out from AA and aren’t really promoting AA, it’s just very black and white. And for me, that never felt sustainable. I was like not drinking for the rest of my life, even though I don’t drink now. I’m like, I can drink tomorrow if I want to. And it almost makes it easier not to drink. But yeah, I mean, you don’t see other people in the space either. Yeah, yeah, no, I don’t. And I think that is so important.

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that more of us raise our hands, know, especially since like post COVID, so many people  who were normal drinkers went into lockdown and did not come out normal drinkers. And there just isn’t enough information out there that you do have options.

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Well, Katie, is there anything I haven’t asked you that you’d like to share?  think just to say that, you know, sometimes people reach out to me and they’re like, is my drinking bad enough for the Sinclair method or is it too bad for it? And I would just say in my experience, I’ve seen this method work for the spectrum of alcohol use disorder, whether mild to severe. And what  I really love about this treatment is that,  you know, in traditional treatments, people are kind of waiting for that rock bottom moment. Like, well, maybe if my life gets

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bad enough, then I’ll be motivated to change. in my experience, the rock bottom just kept getting lower and the motivation still wouldn’t come. So just to encourage people that whether it’s through what you do or through what we do or something else out there, like you don’t have to wait for a rock bottom. You can address it now. You don’t have to identify as an alcoholic. I kind of feel like excessive drinking, like what you said post COVID, it’s like a learned pattern and a learned habit. can...

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unlearn it and you can reverse it and you’re not stuck there forever, even though traditional treatment kind of wants you to believe that you are, you’re not. And you don’t have to wait for it to get really bad because you don’t have to quit. There are ways to, you know, rein it in. And I think, you know, a lot of what I’ve learned over the years and maybe you as well, it’s like our alcohol use disorder issues, it’s really a neurological issue. It’s something in the brain and how we’re thinking about alcohol and how we’re viewing it and the habits we have around it.

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thanks to what we know about neural plasticity, like it can change. Your brain isn’t stuck that way forever. So for people just to know, like you can get help now, you don’t have to be an alcoholic or call yourself an alcoholic. You can just  address the issue before it gets really bad. And if you are in a bad place, like there are options, like keep doing research and finding the one that works for you.

31:09

Well, thank you so much, Katie, for being here. I appreciate your time and I will put all your information in the show notes. Awesome. Thank you for having me. It was a real treat to me, Colleen. Same, Katie. Thank you. All right. Thank you for listening.  And I put all of Katie’s information into the show notes so you can find her at Thrive Alcohol Recovery on social media,  as well as her website.  And I want to remind you again that if you appreciated this content, it’s really important that you pay it forward.

31:39

you know somebody that needs to hear the episode. And if you’re still listening and you’re thinking that, you know what, I’ve already tried naltrexone and I know that maybe it’ll help, maybe it won’t, but I’m ready to do the work.  Or if you’re just like, I don’t want to take a medication for the rest of my life  over this drinking thing and you’re ready to do it right, then you need to get in the show notes and click the link and apply for a discovery call with me.

32:05

because my program can give you the radical transformation from the inside out that you’re looking for. But you have to learn how to rewire your nervous system. You have to understand how your thoughts and emotions and your sense of identity  are programmed  into your subconscious and they’re driving your behavior below your level of conscious awareness. The root cause of your desire to drink isn’t alcohol.

32:35

It’s actually emotional dysregulation. And inside my program, we don’t just deal with the surface level behaviors. We don’t just interrupt the cravings. We rewrite the code and retrain your brain so that it is working for you instead of against you. You can learn how to become your own best friend instead of your own biggest enemy. And I’m not gonna bullshit you. It’s not easy and it does take time.

33:04

and you have to be committed to doing the work. One of the nice things about my program is that you don’t have to figure out what the work is to do. You just have to follow directions. You just have to commit  to participating in a couple of group calls a week and listening to the content  and  engaging in the community. Like if you know how to go to school, then you have everything you need to change. You just need to put yourself

33:33

into a community  and under the guidance and support of a coach with a team of support coaches so that you can just relax and spend your energy actually doing the work that changes who you are from the inside out. Just imagine the relief that comes with knowing this problem is solved and it’s not even your job to figure it all out. You just have to follow directions. And if you can do that and you are ready,

34:03

to alter the trajectory of your life so that you are no longer rinsing and repeating on unsustainable habits, then take the action. Do the hard thing.  Schedule an appointment to talk with either me or someone on my team about what is going on for you  and what you need to move through it once and for all. Give yourself the gift of hope, my friend. And then,

34:28

I just want to say thank you for listening. appreciate you so much. I make this content for you. Doing this work is why I get out of bed in the morning. And so I just want you to know how much I love you. So I’ll see you on the next episode. And until then, have a kick ass week.